The Truth About That Financial Advisor Conversation You’ve Been Avoiding

Jonathon Gais: [00:00:00] Planning is not saying, "I'm going to magically find more dollars for you." It's, "Well, let's talk about [00:00:05] where all the dollars are going, and you can decide whether you could adjust any of those expenses." And [00:00:10] often creating a financial plan is one of those catalytic moments that help people change those behaviors.[00:00:15]

Jennifer Borget: [00:00:20] Welcome back to A Better Way to Money. I'm Jennifer Borget. Throughout this season, we've been following [00:00:25] the big life moments that change everything: getting married, buying a home, [00:00:30] having a baby, navigating a career shift. Whether you're ready or not, these milestones [00:00:35] reshape your finances and your future.

To help us through them, we've brought in experts who [00:00:40] work inside these decisions every day: behavioral scientists, attorneys, [00:00:45] planners, and advocates who've helped us understand not just what to do but [00:00:50] how to actually do it. Today is a bit of a reset. Instead of zooming in on one [00:00:55] life event, we're pulling back to look at the most common financial blind spots and how [00:01:00] to overcome them.

Jonathan Gais leads financial planning strategy at Northwestern [00:01:05] Mutual, which means he's not just one advisor with one set of clients. He shapes how [00:01:10] Northwestern Mutual's advisors think about planning at scale, and that gives him a view [00:01:15] into patterns most people never get to see. Before we dive in, grab Northwestern [00:01:20] Mutual's free Family Finances workbook at [00:01:25] northwesternmutual.com/podcast. It's a great companion to everything we'll cover today.

All right, let's dig [00:01:30] in.

So, Jonathan, how did you end up doing this work, and what keeps you doing [00:01:35] it?

Jonathon Gais: I was just thinking about this going back to ... it's been 20+ years I've spent time [00:01:40] in the industry in wealth management and started as a financial advisor out of college.

And I [00:01:45] think a lot of it is the way I was raised. My parents had careers where the [00:01:50] benefit wasn't necessarily just the income but also what did you get out of the role itself. So, [00:01:55] raising four kids, well, you work at the department store; you get a discount on clothing and other [00:02:00] areas.

You know, my mom got a job at an airline so I could fly to college. So, I'm graduating, and I didn't [00:02:05] really have any experience, and I realized I just had zero financial literacy; it's not an [00:02:10] area I grew up with. My perspective at the time was that a financial advisor is [00:02:15] somebody with the mahogany desk and the green banker's light, and only people with massive [00:02:20] net worths ever met with a financial advisor.

So I got into it, and I spent the first seven or eight years of [00:02:25] my career as an advisor, and I was most excited about not just learning for [00:02:30] myself, but learning the questions and the paths that you could take at [00:02:35] any level of wealth that would help move your family along to help secure financial strength and [00:02:40] security.

And this—I think the terminology probably is dated at this point, but this [00:02:45] democratization of wealth management that comes from how you bring more accessibility to financial planning [00:02:50] was something I was really excited about. Something I loved was deepening those relationships with my clients in the [00:02:55] first few years of my career.

Jennifer Borget: And how was that transition, in how you were thinking about it? Because I think a lot of [00:03:00] people still do think of this mahogany desk situation where you're [00:03:05] for the ultra-rich or something. But it's not just all number crunchers, [00:03:10] spreadsheets, projections. What does the actual conversation look like? What are you really doing [00:03:15] when you're sitting down with someone?

Jonathon Gais: The math has never been the issue. I mean, this is funny saying as somebody who [00:03:20] runs and builds the financial planning tools for a firm, and I've spent my time in industry working on [00:03:25] financial planning technology. But the math is something we have solved for optimization, or [00:03:30] the computational side of it.

Really, planning is behavioral. It's not just committing to a financial [00:03:35] plan; it's committing to the financial behaviors that help you actually achieve those outcomes and [00:03:40] being really intentional about where you're aligning those assets, where you're aligning your savings. [00:03:45] And the misconception is that I need to wait until I have enough [00:03:50] money to start planning, or I need to wait until I resolve this big thing, and then I can take my first [00:03:55] step, when really what you're doing is I'm committing to taking actions and [00:04:00] being intentional about what I want to do with my financial outcomes. And I can do that [00:04:05] in a spreadsheet, I can do that with a calculator, or I can do that with a [00:04:10] comprehensive financial plan. But the commitment to that path is where, really, as an advisor, my [00:04:15] role was not just to say, "Here's the exact dollars you should put in this bucket versus that bucket." It was [00:04:20] to say, "Where do you feel that you could take action right now and commit to it?"

Because that [00:04:25] commitment is what led to long-term success, not optimization of [00:04:30] dollars in qualified or nonqualified assets or some of the Which stocks should I pick? We're [00:04:35] past that part of financial planning. It's behavioral, not computational.

Jennifer Borget: When you start walking through [00:04:40] that with someone, do you hear certain questions more often than others? And what are [00:04:45] people most surprised to discover about where they actually stand with their money?

Jonathon Gais: [00:04:50] It's this dissonance between Where am I, and am I [00:04:55] okay? versus what I see, and it's only become more prevalent with social media, with [00:05:00] Instagram and TikTok. When I started as an advisor, that wasn't a thing, but you still had the [00:05:05] surveys: "I need to have three times my salary at this age saved in [00:05:10] retirement funds," or "The average buyer of a home is X years old."

And that stuff, [00:05:15] it can become overwhelming if you're not on this perfect track. So, some of the [00:05:20] conversations is this almost vulnerability starting the meeting. Someone's like, "I wanted to [00:05:25] meet with you, but I'm not sure." And it's almost that they're hiding coming across this [00:05:30] table with you, or they’re like, "I don't want to really tell you where I am right now," because they're nervous.

There's a bit of shame for some reason. The [00:05:35] American mindset around finances can be so sheltered and so protected, [00:05:40] and it’s cathartic moment of being able to say, "You're doing great. You're as best as you can be with where you [00:05:45] are right now, and there are things we can do that can help you with where you want to go." And this [00:05:50] realization that Clients like me or people in my situation [00:05:55] is not this drastic difference between what I see, you know, somebody driving a [00:06:00] fancier car or buying a larger home or going on more trips, which right now is [00:06:05] just relentless.

Jennifer Borget: Yeah. That's got to be doing a number on people. I know even for [00:06:10] me, when I'm in different groups or seeing different people share different things, I'm like, "How [00:06:15] are they doing this? What is going on here? What do you do for a [00:06:20] living?" You know, "What's going on?"

Jonathon Gais: Well, this is it. You drive around, and you're like, "How does that person have that [00:06:25] car and that house? I know what the statistics are. How is that possible?”

And you don't actually [00:06:30] know what anyone's situation is. This is the challenge of financial planning: The [00:06:35] advisor is not just there to help with the math. We can do the math. It's to help put you in [00:06:40] perspective of what you're trying to accomplish and not to live up to [00:06:45] chasing what ideal looks like.

The plan is [00:06:50] directional. The plan is not a map; it's a compass or now we're in 2026, [00:06:55] it's a GPS. You're going to take a path. You're going to have to change course. And when that course [00:07:00] changes, it's important to be able to tack back on to where you were trying to get to and not just be upset that you [00:07:05] didn't fall perfectly in line with this financial plan.

And where I see the conversations [00:07:10] I had as an advisor and where our advisors are most successful is helping people through the moments where [00:07:15] everything isn't going to plan, so that they're still taking the right actions, the right [00:07:20] behaviors, and adjusting as you need to because life is not linear.

It's not this perfect thing of, "Oh, if I [00:07:25] get this promotion, I'll be able to buy that car that my neighbor has." That's not how this works. There's a million other things that [00:07:30] complicate our financial situations, and being really intentional about [00:07:35] Where do I sit, and what am I trying to achieve? Doing that with your spouse or significant other and [00:07:40] finding that path together is where the real outcomes come to life.

Jennifer Borget: Now, I want [00:07:45] you to walk us through some of the biggest personal finance mistakes that you see people make, maybe [00:07:50] specifically in their 30s.

Jonathon Gais: I think you've seen—and 30s [00:07:55] is a great time right now because we're now 15+ years into [00:08:00] historic bull run markets. It's this idea of chasing wealth and meme [00:08:05] stocks and this over-reliance on growth. We're in a period when we [00:08:10] haven't had to see the other side of actually comprehensive financial planning—of insurable events—as [00:08:15] often in the market side; protection does not feel as significant. But I [00:08:20] know that when we think of holistic advice, and I think of this as a former role and specifically [00:08:25] with Northwestern Mutual, one of the mistakes is this over-concentration on I'm trying to hit a big [00:08:30] number. I'm trying to focus on how much more I can get without also balancing what would happen [00:08:35] if I couldn't make an income for a number of years.

What would happen if, God forbid, something happens [00:08:40] to myself or others? We have a financial plan. You know, I've been a former CFP, been an [00:08:45] advisor. I build financial planning tools, and last year I lost my home in a tornado. [00:08:50] In May, we get hit by a tornado that comes through St. Louis. My financial [00:08:55] plan did not prepare for some time in my 40s to lose my home and be displaced for a year. [00:09:00] But I had protection. We have the privilege that, because of emergency [00:09:05] savings and other goals we put around it, we've been able to spend the last year working [00:09:10] through what our settlement is. And our treatment, what to repair, replace—our plan is not on track. A plan that we [00:09:15] had a year ago is not the same plan we have now.

The mistake is [thinking] that everything's going to go [00:09:20] perfectly and not preparing for the likelihood that something won't ... and [00:09:25] weathering that storm when it happens and knowing that you can adjust on the fly and [00:09:30] be dynamic in your plan and take the actions necessary to put yourself in the best [00:09:35] possible position you can be in the moment ... but to move forward knowing that everything's not going to [00:09:40] be this perfect—you know, Monte Carlo run, it's not going to be the number one outcome in the financial [00:09:45] plan in most scenarios.

Jennifer Borget: Wow. Well, I'm really sorry about your house. [00:09:50]

Jonathon Gais: Yeah. Well, it's one of those things. I've lived in St. Louis [00:09:55] for my life on and off. We haven't had a storm hit at that level in a [00:10:00] city in over 75 years. That's the kind of thing you go, "Why? Why would I worry about that? That doesn't happen. I [00:10:05] don't live in an area where I should be impacted." And yet you are.

You could have the same conversation about [00:10:10] disability insurance.

Everybody in my family is healthy. I haven't had an issue. Then something [00:10:15] happens, and now you can't achieve your near-term goals or long-term goals because you can't replace that income [00:10:20] anymore. Or you think about insurance, and it's this one point in time cost. [00:10:25] Rather than actually thinking about it as just as important as your growth side is how you are protecting yourself [00:10:30] for life's events that will inevitably happen in some way or another and being able to [00:10:35] monitor and shift your plan in that time.

Jennifer Borget: Now, in the first episode of the season, we actually [00:10:40] talked with Wendy De La Rosa, and she talked about the gap between financial education and [00:10:45] financial behavior: knowing what you should do but not doing it. Now, [00:10:50] where do you see that show up most painfully?

Jonathon Gais: I think the first is just inaction. [00:10:55] The hardest thing to do is to say, "I'm ready to talk to a financial advisor. I'm ready [00:11:00] to start my plan." There's always something that feels like “I'm just [00:11:05] not ready yet.” There's some hurdle in the way.

My wife and I, we use this example right now, we're actually [00:11:10] in the process of working with a new financial advisor, and we're in the process of settling with [00:11:15] this home insurance. And the conversation was like, "Well, let's just wait until this number comes in, so we can [00:11:20] start with a full financial plan." And then the conversation really went to, "Well, we should have the [00:11:25] conversation to prepare for the potential scenarios should this come in and what else we're doing around these [00:11:30] things." Yes, it would be perfect if I waited six months, and I had already bought the new home or whatever path we had [00:11:35] taken. So being able to just start the plan matters [00:11:40] more than if the plan is perfect in the first place.

I'll share another story here for a second. [00:11:45] Coming in today, I actually had a message from a friend who was talking about [00:11:50] a purchase he wanted to make, and he was like, "I need help because I cannot figure [00:11:55] out what behavioral thing is stopping me from making this purchase. I've never been more successful financially than where I am right [00:12:00] now. I can absolutely afford to do this, and I feel fully [00:12:05] paralyzed that I shouldn't purchase this thing.”

And I just ask, "Have you ever started a financial plan? [00:12:10] Have you ever worked with a financial advisor? How do you know you can afford it, and how [00:12:15] do you know that you're on track for your other goals?"

And he's like, "No, like I'm not even sure what I want to [00:12:20] achieve with these dollars. I'm not sure where ..."

I was like, "Well, that really matters more than 'Do I have the [00:12:25] right number’ in the end. It's some intentionality."

So, where I think the biggest mistakes and [00:12:30] the behavioral gap is—I can know everything about finances, I can understand [00:12:35] diversification in my investments, I can understand the need for risk in others—but if I [00:12:40] don't take the action, if I'm not vulnerable enough to start when things aren't perfect, [00:12:45] then it won't actually matter.

Jennifer Borget: I think that is so true. I see so many [00:12:50] people, and we have these goals of I want to do this or I want to do that, or, I guess, like [00:12:55] your friend, he had a goal but maybe wasn't sure of his other goals. [00:13:00] You know, I see people talk about that with retirement; it's like, Do I have enough? And it's like, Well, how [00:13:05] much do you spend? What do you want to do? You kind of have to think all of these things through.

Jonathon Gais: Well, and that's the conversation with an [00:13:10] advisor because no one comes in and says, "I want to spend exactly 73.5 [00:13:15] percent of my current lifestyle when I retire, so can you just do the math on that, please?" You have to have [00:13:20] a conversation. And the same conversation becomes like, "Well, how do we [00:13:25] get there?"

My wife is brilliant. She's a professor in political science. She's one of the smartest people I've [00:13:30] ever met in my life. She would rather we take our money and put it in a Folgers can and dig it in the backyard and be [00:13:35] like, "It's safe now." I would say, "Let's invest in emerging [00:13:40] frontier stocks." And between the two of us, that's a financial advisor's role to say, "How do I get the two of you [00:13:45] together in an open, vulnerable conversation?"—that she's going to feel that we're taking on too much risk, and I'm going to feel like [00:13:50] we're being too conservative.

But the actual idea is if you do [00:13:55] this, you are going to be okay. You know, we're actually getting ready to engage with an NM [00:14:00] advisor, and one of the things was this conversation of I'm overly [00:14:05] financial literate. I know too much for my own good, and I start doing the optimization math. I start going into [00:14:10] the algorithm and calculation, and then when she and I talk about it, she's like, "I don't get it, and I don't want to get [00:14:15] it from you."

So, we [00:14:20] very intentionally—she's like, "I want to work with a woman advisor." And so we were interviewing women [00:14:25] advisors, and I said, "Please meet with her without me. Go and just talk to her, figure out how she [00:14:30] works, figure out what you need, and have this conversation." And she came back exhilarated [00:14:35] after this conversation because she's like, "I felt heard, and I know that I [00:14:40] don't have to ask you all the questions that we should actually be discussing with each [00:14:45] other versus it feeling like I'm asking for permission or approval of doing the right things, [00:14:50] and this person's a resource for me."

And then, all that said, she came back and said, "Well, we shouldn't start working with her until [00:14:55] after we get this insurance settlement." And I was like, "That doesn't work. We should start now because we'll [00:15:00] find out how to use the insurance settlement." Right now. Right? Like in this conversation, you'll feel comfortable about the choices you have.

Jennifer Borget: [00:15:05] Mm. That's really cool. I didn't even think about interviewing advisors, too. I feel like that's a [00:15:10] good point.

Jonathon Gais: Well, I think the importance is saying, yes, people are [00:15:15] different, and so we have to have conversations that match more than just this computational [00:15:20] output that's optimized next-best-dollar math.

And that the best case is that you [00:15:25] balance these better financial outcomes and better financial health and wellness and lower [00:15:30] financial anxiety around those items because that's where, when things go off or when the plan doesn't [00:15:35] go perfectly, you're able to stay on track or on path and [00:15:40] adjust on the fly with the help of somebody who's there as both a financial therapist [00:15:45] and behavioral coach and supporting you on the calculations as well.

Jennifer Borget: So, you were [00:15:50] talking about protection, and I know that's something you dealt with your home. [00:15:55] You talk to a lot of people about this, but protection's one of the biggest blind spots that you see. [00:16:00] And life insurance is a topic that most people just want to actively avoid talking [00:16:05] about. It's probably not a comfortable thing to think about. Why is that, and what are [00:16:10] people getting wrong about it?

Jonathon Gais: Well, there's an inherent discomfort in it because you're talking [00:16:15] about mortality, and that's an uncomfortable conversation in general. And what you [00:16:20] find is because something is uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not worth doing. The [00:16:25] conversations that, really, as an advisor, I felt even before I was with Northwestern Mutual, [00:16:30] I didn't do my responsibility if I didn't talk to you about that protection.[00:16:35] Because nobody walks in and says, "Hey, I'm looking forward to buying life insurance. Can you please place [00:16:40] a policy for me?" The conversation is actually like, "What would happen if?" [00:16:45] You know, you do it with a family, you can do it with long-term [00:16:50] goals, whatever it may be. And in the scenario where something happens and that [00:16:55] income is not there and your support is not there, and all the things that you provide as an [00:17:00] individual to your family and others, how would you like others to [00:17:05] have to move forward in the moments afterwards?

That [00:17:10] conversation becomes more about values. Is this something that you're protecting for a short period, [00:17:15] or is this something you want to protect for a longer period? Or is this something that you want to ensure at the end, [00:17:20] no matter what, there's going to be a liquidity event, there's going to be something that pays out?

And that [00:17:25] conversation is more about what it is you're trying to achieve and what it is you're trying to protect, rather than [00:17:30] what's the optimal financial product mix to achieve some specific net present value [00:17:35] calculation, et cetera. That misses the mark, but it's an uncomfortable conversation.

So, where the s- [00:17:40] advisors become helpful is that it's our responsibility to have uncomfortable conversations [00:17:45] and to guide people through those, because it's a lot easier to say, "You know, I'll think about that again [00:17:50] later. Right now, let's just do this." And that's okay. That can happen. But if you don't come [00:17:55] back to it later, now you've done yourself a disservice.

Jennifer Borget: And what do you say to someone who maybe feels like planning [00:18:00] is just pointless right now? Like they're feeling overwhelmed with interest [00:18:05] rates being unpredictable, the economy feels unstable. Maybe they're feeling [00:18:10] paralyzed by how uncertain everything feels right now. What do you say to someone who's feeling that way?

Jonathon Gais: [00:18:15] First, that's true in every economic environment we've ever had, in the sense of you do not [00:18:20] know what's going to happen in three months, six months, 10 years. Financial [00:18:25] planning is predicated upon a litany of assumptions. So, [00:18:30] capital market assumptions—how will my investments perform over the next 30, 50, 60 [00:18:35] years? How we model that in any given year, you [00:18:40] might sequence three, four, five bad years in a row. In that case, that plan's going to look [00:18:45] pretty tough. If you flip it and, say, three, four, five years in a row look a lot like the [00:18:50] mid-2010s, that plan looks phenomenal. Assumptions are only there because there's no way for us to predict the [00:18:55] future.

Planning should not be predicting the future. Planning is about assuming you continue the things that you're [00:19:00] doing right now and assuming a variable group of assumptions that we [00:19:05] can with some certainty feel are directionally correct. Are you going to be okay? [00:19:10] And right now, when things feel the most [00:19:15] stressful about What should I be doing, and I can't make a decision because there's too many variables that [00:19:20] move, what could be more valuable than an activity that lowers financial anxiety? What could be more valuable than [00:19:25] setting some intentionality so that when something changes—not if, but when something changes, [00:19:30] I can take a path that makes me feel more dynamic in my plan [00:19:35] and know that I have the opportunity to speak with an expert, know the opportunity to be [00:19:40] on the same page with my significant other, that we're going to be okay through this.

That [00:19:45] to me is like—it's the same thing from Wendy's conversation. Doesn't matter how much financial education or [00:19:50] financial literacy you have, though that is critical. We have to raise the floor on that. It matters that you take [00:19:55] action and that you continue to take action and that you set intentions and that you set positive behaviors. You're [00:20:00] committing to the financial behaviors that will get you on track. Not [00:20:05] necessarily Did I put the right dollars in the right accounts? That matters too, but less so than the behaviors. [00:20:10]

Jennifer Borget: You've mentioned how you and your wife talk about this but [00:20:15] have differed so much in your in how you want to handle things. [00:20:20] I totally, I totally get that. My husband was in your wife's shoes, I think, with the "Let's just [00:20:25] hide it under the mattress. We got some, you know. Let's do it."

But I think it's harder these [00:20:30] days because of social media, and you see so many things online. There's [00:20:35] lifestyle creep. You know, you start making more money. That was one thing I felt like we were a little bit good at was [00:20:40] "Okay, when we get a raise, let's not start spending more. Let's pretend like we're still making this [00:20:45] much, and then we'll save the extra." But that seems to be hard [00:20:50] for a lot of people.

Jonathon Gais: I think capitalism is weaponized against that. We've [00:20:55] become really successful at separating people from their money in the commercial space. [00:21:00] Lifestyle creep is by far the biggest impact between the data we see [00:21:05] of how you switch; as the income grows, the expenses just tend to grow with it. And it's [00:21:10] exactly that idea of “Okay, maybe I'm not going to switch from the average car to [00:21:15] the luxury car, but I did switch and buy the luxury package of the regular car.”[00:21:20]

When we start doing that math, well, you just bought the basic package of the luxury car. You convinced [00:21:25] yourself you did the thing that didn't creep the lifestyle, and then it did. You start doing more convenience-based [00:21:30] spending. “I'll just have that delivered” versus driving down the street.

So, it's so [00:21:35] easy for it to catch up, and you look around and you go, "How am I making more than I made [00:21:40] when I was 19 and getting married and yet I feel like I'm saving less than I used to?" [00:21:45] Family and priorities and life events, these things shift.

I think [00:21:50] the statistics show that more than 50 percent of Americans would not be able to meet a $1,000 [00:21:55] expense right now should that hit. And [00:22:00] that's real in the sense of ”How do I continue to save for something that feels [00:22:05] 30 years away? How do I save for retirement if I know that right now if my windshield broke, I'm going to have a hard [00:22:10] time justifying where I'm going to spend this week's paycheck,” whatever it may be. [00:22:15] It is not an uncommon position to be in. “I don't know how I could save [00:22:20] any more than I'm currently putting away. I'm doing my match for my 401(k), [00:22:25] and then I don't know what to do.”

Sometimes planning is not saying “I'm going to magically find more [00:22:30] dollars for you.” It's saying, "Well, let's talk about where all the dollars are going," and [00:22:35] you can decide whether or not you're at a position right now where you could adjust any of those expenses. Could [00:22:40] you make any choices of cooking more at home? Could you make any choices of maybe on the next [00:22:45] car you don't buy the premium package, and you put that money into a Roth IRA?

The [00:22:50] intentionality there, I know we've hit it a couple of times, but in the same way [00:22:55] a therapist would have you do the work, it's the same thing as a financial advisor. I can't make you [00:23:00] save. I can't get you to spend differently. All I can do is share with [00:23:05] you good habits and the trade-offs of those habits. And when you're ready, [00:23:10] you'll make those changes. Often, creating a financial plan is one of those catalytic moments, one of [00:23:15] those forcing mechanisms that help people change those behaviors.

Jennifer Borget: Right. And [00:23:20] as you're listing those things, I'm like, "Oh, man." All the TV premium [00:23:25] subscriptions, that's another one that's creeping in. I held off so [00:23:30] long. I felt like I was the last person to get Netflix, and now I got them all.

Jonathon Gais: You used to have [00:23:35] cable...

Jennifer Borget: Im like, "Get Netflix." ... And I was so mad at cable, and now I'm like, "Can we go back to [00:23:40] cable?"

Jonathon Gais: Yeah, I just want one bill, and I want to know what's coming in. And now I've got, [00:23:45] if you've used ...

You know, AI is now around. It's part of the conversation. [00:23:50] We have to think about how that helps our clients and how that helps our advisors be [00:23:55] more effective in their conversations, be more effective in their positive money habits than others. [00:24:00] There are things like the ability to aggregate all of my cards and my [00:24:05] checking account and see where all my subscriptions are. How many subscriptions do I have open right now? And you do those [00:24:10] sort of discoveries, and you're like, "I don't want to replace an advisor with AI. I want to empower my [00:24:15] advisor with AI to help me do things like You know you're spending ..."

This is something I actually just realized. I have three [00:24:20] different Apple subscriptions for Apple Music. I like the Apple One, [00:24:25] and I was paying for it individually, and I was like, "Why am I ... ?" Apple didn't call me and say, [00:24:30] "By the way, you're paying three X what you should be paying every month for our services." And I look, and one of [00:24:35] my credit cards has a free Apple package anyway. So, I'm paying something multiple times when I could've been getting it [00:24:40] for free.

It's so easy for all those things to happen. So, how do we use technology to [00:24:45] help us with these types of activities, and even [00:24:50] CFPs and other credentials, there's always a little bit more of like, "How could I do more for this client? How could I do more for [00:24:55] Jennifer and her husband?" Let's power that with technology, but the part of it that comes back to it is [00:25:00] not that I'm going to give you this next best dollar optimization analysis. I'm going to come back to it like, "Here's something you [00:25:05] could do. Do you feel like you could do that? Now, do you feel like you could stay on this path [00:25:10] if we try this?"

That's where the real lift happens. The plan is [00:25:15] more than just what it's printed on. The plan has to be dynamic to where you are and what's happening and what's changing and [00:25:20] your ability to stay committed to it.

Jennifer Borget: Yeah. It sounds very empowering. Thank you, Jonathan. Now, I’ve got one more [00:25:25] question for you, a takeaway question for someone who's maybe been putting off the financial [00:25:30] piece of a big life moment that they have coming up. What's the mindset shift that makes [00:25:35] everything else easier? Maybe not the first action that they need to take, but the [00:25:40] first thought.

Jonathon Gais: Oh, that's such a good question. I think the answer is [00:25:45] just realizing that there is no better time than right now to take action. [00:25:50] And that sounds overly simplistic because it is, and it would be very easy to [00:25:55] procrastinate: I need to have the perfect answer. Which exact amount [00:26:00] of home can I afford? Which exact amount should I be saving for retirement? How much should I [00:26:05] save exactly for my kids' education? And that exactness can be overwhelming.[00:26:10]

So, the first thought should be, "Am I ready to start? [00:26:15] I can be vulnerable, I can be open, I'm not going to be in the perfect position,” but it's [00:26:20] [more] important to engage and take intentionality of what you're trying to achieve and have that [00:26:25] conversation than it is about “I'm going to buy the exact perfect stock,” or “I'm going to go invest the [00:26:30] exact right amount.”

So, I think intentionality to start and just being willing to take action is the right [00:26:35] path forward.

Jennifer Borget: That's Jonathan Gais, vice president of Client Experience and [00:26:40] Personalized Planning at Northwestern Mutual. This one hits close to home for me, and I think it will [00:26:45] for a lot of you, too. What we keep coming back to this season is that the gap most of [00:26:50] us have with money isn't about knowing more; it's about doing more with what we [00:26:55] already know.

And if this conversation gave you even one thing to act on, don't let it [00:27:00] sit. Download Northwestern Mutual's free Family Finances workbook at [00:27:05] northwesternmutual.com/podcast. It's a great way to start turning that intention into [00:27:10] an actual plan.

Next time on A [00:27:15] Better Way to Money ...

Neha Ruch: The biggest difference between the power pause and just a [00:27:20] pause is this concept that when you make room for family life, you're actually [00:27:25] also making room for yourself.

Jennifer Borget: Stepping back from your career to raise your [00:27:30] kids can feel like the right call and a financial risk at the same time. Neha Ruch joins us [00:27:35] to talk about the power pause, what it actually costs, what it gives you, and how to make it [00:27:40] work on your own terms. Tap follow in your podcast app so you don't miss it.

Northwestern [00:27:45] Mutual is the marketing name for the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company (life and disability [00:27:50] insurance, annuities, and life insurance with long-term care benefits) and its subsidiaries in [00:27:55] Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Not all Northwestern Mutual representatives are advisors. Only those [00:28:00] representatives with “advisor” in their title or who otherwise disclose their status as an advisor of [00:28:05] Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company (NMWMC) are credentialed as [00:28:10] NMWMC representatives to provide advisory services.