Want to Know How to Live a Good Life? 85 Years of Harvard Research Has the Answer

Dr. Robert Waldinger: [00:00:00] What really matters to you? What do you really care about? And that can include [00:00:05] financial things. That can include I care about being sure I have a comfortable retirement. Those [00:00:10] things matter.[00:00:15]

Jennifer Borget: Welcome back to A Better Way to Money. I'm Jennifer Borget. We've spent this entire [00:00:20] series talking about money at life's biggest turning points: having kids, [00:00:25] getting married, surviving a setback, starting over. And through all of these [00:00:30] conversations, one question kept coming up in different forms. What does it actually [00:00:35] mean to build a good life?

Not just a financially secure one, a genuinely [00:00:40] good one. I saved today's guest for last because I think his work answers that question [00:00:45] better than anyone. Dr. Robert Waldinger is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard [00:00:50] Medical School and the director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, one of the [00:00:55] longest-running studies of human life ever conducted.

His TED Talk on happiness has been viewed [00:01:00] more than 40 million times, and his book, The Good Life, distills eight [00:01:05] decades of research into practical wisdom. Today we're going to close out this series by [00:01:10] zooming out, looking at the full arc of a life—what the data says about who [00:01:15] thrives and how the decisions you're making right now are quietly shaping who you'll [00:01:20] be at 80.

Grab our free Family Finances workbook at [00:01:25] northwesternmutual.com/podcast. All right, let's bring it home.

So [00:01:30] for anyone who hasn't heard of it, can you tell us what the Harvard Study of Adult Development is [00:01:35] and what drew you to it?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: This study is the longest [00:01:40] study of human life that's ever been done. It began in [00:01:45] 1938.

I'm the fourth director, and it [00:01:50] consisted initially of a group of Harvard College sophomores [00:01:55] and a group of inner-city boys from Boston's poorest and most [00:02:00] troubled families. There were [00:02:05] 724 of them, and then eventually we brought in their spouses, and we brought in their children. [00:02:10] Almost all of the original men in the study have [00:02:15] died.

There are only about 10 still alive, and they're all over age 100. [00:02:20] But the baby boomer children are very much still alive, and we've [00:02:25] been studying them. And so it's a real effort to [00:02:30] study what helps people thrive as they go through life. What are the [00:02:35] paths to thriving?

What drew me was just the [00:02:40] incredible experience of being able to look at one [00:02:45] person's records, which were this high, and being able to [00:02:50] read about what somebody thought about life when he was 19 and then [00:02:55] what he thought about life when he was 30 and what his life was like when he was 60 [00:03:00] and how he looks back on life in his 80s.

It was just [00:03:05] wonderful to be able to view entire lives as they [00:03:10] unfold through time.

Jennifer Borget: Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot of data. [00:03:15] So, after this 85+ years of [00:03:20] data, what do you think is the single most important thing that the study has actually taught us [00:03:25] about trying to live well?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Well, two things. One didn't surprise us. [00:03:30] It was that taking care of our physical health, taking care of our bodies, [00:03:35] really matters for how long we live and how long we [00:03:40] stay relatively healthy. So that's the thing that didn't surprise [00:03:45] us because many other studies had already started to reveal these things. [00:03:50]

What surprised us was that the people [00:03:55] who stayed happy and stayed healthy the [00:04:00] longest were the people who had close, warm connections with other people [00:04:05] —that people's relationships actually predicted how [00:04:10] long they were going to live and stay healthy.

And we didn't believe that [00:04:15] because the question was Well, how could your relationships actually get into your body [00:04:20] and shape your health, shape your physiology? How could that even be possible? [00:04:25] Now, many other studies have begun to find the same thing, and [00:04:30] we've been spending a lot of time in our laboratory working to understand [00:04:35] how that actually works, how relationships foster [00:04:40] good health.

Jennifer Borget: And you talked about how you noticed different people and [00:04:45] how they aged and felt as they got older. Can you give us some examples of people in the [00:04:50] study that really show how relationships impact our health?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Yeah. [00:04:55] One, in a kind of sad way. There was a man who was super accomplished, [00:05:00] a really accomplished lawyer, and won all kinds of awards and worked really hard, [00:05:05] but he never really got along with people very well, and he had a first [00:05:10] marriage that ended in divorce, and he was kind of estranged from his children.[00:05:15]

And then he had a second marriage, and that marriage ended in a kind of [00:05:20] stalemate. They didn't divorce, but they were kind of at a standoff, really unhappy with each other. [00:05:25] And his health declined so badly later in his life, and he really [00:05:30] had a miserable end of life because of that.

On the other hand, there [00:05:35] was another man who was not very so accomplished. He was a high school teacher and [00:05:40] really happy being a high school teacher. He'd gone to Harvard, but then he taught high school history [00:05:45] his whole life, and he really enjoyed it. He enjoyed his students, his colleagues. [00:05:50] He had a wife he loved and three daughters who he really cared about, [00:05:55] and lots of grandkids, and he was really happy and lived a [00:06:00] much longer, healthier life.

Jennifer Borget: Wow. Yeah, that says a lot about what you're doing for work and [00:06:05] who you're around. So, what kinds of relationships are we talking about? Is it just romantic [00:06:10] relationships? What about when it comes to pets or having friends online and social media and [00:06:15] things like that? Have you noticed a difference?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: No, we're talking about all kinds of [00:06:20] relationships, but what we're talking about is emotionally important relationships, [00:06:25] relationships where you really feel the person knows you, has your back, would be there in [00:06:30] times of need. So we're not talking about Facebook friends or Instagram [00:06:35] followers. We're not talking about that at all. We're talking about real connections.

Jennifer Borget: In [00:06:40] talking about relationships, I've seen research saying that loneliness is as [00:06:45] bad for your health as something like smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Does that [00:06:50] square with what you've seen in your work?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. And we started to study [00:06:55] loneliness as people began to realize how important it was and how common [00:07:00] loneliness is. And it's true that people who are lonely are more [00:07:05] likely to get all those diseases of aging. And what we know, one of the [00:07:10] reasons why loneliness has a bad effect on our health is because it's a [00:07:15] stressor.

You know, stress of any kind causes bodily systems to break [00:07:20] down sooner. Now, a little bit of stress is fine, and there is stress in everyday life for [00:07:25] sure. It's the kind of stress that doesn't go away that we think is so damaging, where the [00:07:30] body never comes back to a kind of equilibrium.

Jennifer Borget: I'm curious [00:07:35] also: What does the research tell us about the relationship between financial stress and health [00:07:40] outcomes? Did you see any correlation there?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Well, there is ... We didn't test it [00:07:45] specifically in our research, but financial stress, like any source of [00:07:50] stress, sets the body up for [00:07:55] breakdown. It increases inflammation in the body. It increases [00:08:00] circulating stress hormones. It weakens the immune system. So, if it's really [00:08:05] stressful, and it happens to be because of finances, then that's the cause.[00:08:10]

So, stress, again, is a very personal, subjective [00:08:15] experience.

Jennifer Borget: And if strong relationships are something that helps you and they [00:08:20] help you feel a healthier, happier life, do you feel like investing in those [00:08:25] relationships then becomes a financial decision? Should people actually be [00:08:30] budgeting for connections?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Well, it's not exactly a financial [00:08:35] decision, as one of the things our research shows is that when you have experiences with other people that you [00:08:40] pay for, like going to a soccer game or going to a concert, [00:08:45] you often build stronger relationships with the people you go with, or you [00:08:50] meet new people, or both.

But beyond that, it's really [00:08:55] about feeling connected, and so there are ways to [00:09:00] structure your life so that you're not alone, so that you are connected [00:09:05] with other people, and hopefully in the process so that you're doing things you enjoy, doing [00:09:10] things you care about.

Jennifer Borget: And how do you know what you actually care about? [00:09:15] One of our guests said they wrote down what they want their lives to look like in five years, [00:09:20] and she gave these really lovely ideas about what she did on the day-to-day basis, [00:09:25] including writing and having a silly household. Do you have any tips like that? [00:09:30]

Dr. Robert Waldinger: For me, it's about paying attention to what lights you up [00:09:35] and what drains your energy.

Beause I think as [00:09:40] kids we get taught to ignore those signals. [00:09:45] We get those signals all the time: "Oh, I really like this," or "This is so exciting. [00:09:50] This conversation is so energizing." And we get the opposite signals: "Ugh, [00:09:55] this really drains me," right? But often, as kids, we're told, [00:10:00] "Okay, now you’ve got to sit still and pay attention and listen to the teacher," and which is, [00:10:05] of course, necessary, but I think we end up learning to [00:10:10] suppress and stop recognizing those signals about what lights us up and [00:10:15] what doesn't.

So, I would say let's get better again at paying [00:10:20] attention to that right now, day to day, moment to moment.

Jennifer Borget: The things that really [00:10:25] light us up and make us happy. So, it's not just about relationships with other people but [00:10:30] relationships with ourselves.

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Yeah. Well, and our relationships with [00:10:35] ourselves are really important because if we feel bad about ourselves, we're [00:10:40] much harder to relate with when it comes to other people, right? If [00:10:45] we feel bad about ourselves and we're very sensitive to slights or we're very [00:10:50] self-critical, it's really hard to be a friend. It's hard to have a friend. [00:10:55] So taking care of your relationship with yourself is [00:11:00] a first priority.

Jennifer Borget: That means the way you spend your time, your [00:11:05] money, and your attention actually matters a lot, which means a [00:11:10] Northwestern Mutual financial advisor is one relationship you really don't want to overlook.[00:11:15]

They can help you build a plan that serves your short- and long-term goals. [00:11:20] Whether you're planning a vacation in a few months, paying for college down the road, [00:11:25] or saving for retirement, there's room for everything if you have a plan. And look, [00:11:30] it can be hard to motivate yourself to think that far ahead until you actually are seeing the [00:11:35] numbers.

Your advisor can show you what compound interest looks like over 20 or 30 [00:11:40] years, what you gain by starting now versus waiting, and once you see that in black and [00:11:45] white, it tends to change how you think about money. It's the kind of conversation your future self will thank [00:11:50] you for. Here's one first step you can take right away. Pause this episode and download [00:11:55] Northwestern Mutual's Family Finances Workbook. It's a step-by-step guide to building a [00:12:00] plan. Grab it for free at northwesternmutual.com/podcast. We'll put a link in the [00:12:05] episode description, too.

All right, let's go back to Robert.

Now, throughout this [00:12:10] series, we've heard from all different kinds of experts who all say that one of the best things people [00:12:15] can do is to talk about their financial issues in order to create a game plan to fix [00:12:20] their finances because it also reduces anxiety. Do you have [00:12:25] any thoughts on why that works and why so many people might be saying this?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Well, it works [00:12:30] because turning away from a problem just makes it grow worse, [00:12:35] right? You know, if I'm afraid of my financial situation, and I say, "I just don't [00:12:40] even want to look at my bank balance." The anxiety just grows because you know [00:12:45] you're not looking at it. You know you're not facing toward the problem.

What we know is that [00:12:50] facing toward a problem or a worry almost always makes [00:12:55] it better compared with turning away and saying, "Oh, it'll just take care of itself," or [00:13:00] "I'm just going to pretend it's not happening." That usually makes us less happy. It makes our [00:13:05] anxiety grow.

Jennifer Borget: Mm-hmm. Kind of taking the reins on it.

All right, now let's talk a [00:13:10] little bit about our relationships with ourselves. A lot of people experience [00:13:15] saving as taking from their present self to fund some [00:13:20] future distant stranger that they can't imagine. Can you help us think of some ways we can [00:13:25] reframe that a little bit so planning for the future feels like a part of living well now and not [00:13:30] like this sacrifice?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Oh, yeah. The first thing is to tune into how [00:13:35] much you worry about the future, about not having enough [00:13:40] to retire on, about not having enough to take care of your family in the future. And [00:13:45] if that's a source of stress, that stress is now. So. it's not just the future we're [00:13:50] talking about; we're talking about real stress right now in the moment that may [00:13:55] be breaking down your body if the stress is intense enough.

So, it's [00:14:00] really an investment in feeling more comfortable—safer, if you [00:14:05] will—in the present.

Jennifer Borget: Do you have any tips for people who maybe are feeling [00:14:10] that stress? What would you tell someone who's feeling very stressed out?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Well, [00:14:15] people have different ways of relieving stress, and so there's no [00:14:20] solution that's going to fit everybody.

But we know, for example, that [00:14:25] exercise is one of the most powerful [00:14:30] antidepressants on the planet. If your mood is low, including if you're [00:14:35] anxious, that exercise really helps calm the body and helps elevate [00:14:40] your mood when you're feeling low. One of the difficult things is that when you're [00:14:45] anxious or depressed, you don't feel like exercising.

So, often it [00:14:50] means getting yourself to do it maybe by meeting a friend at the gym or something [00:14:55] to get you to do that. But there are other ways of relieving stress. Certainly being out in [00:15:00] nature can really help because nature opens us up to a [00:15:05] bigger perspective. We get out of our heads. David Foster Wallace, the writer, once [00:15:10] called this our “skull-sized kingdoms,” where we're totally lost in our [00:15:15] own minds, and we forget that there's a vast, amazing world out there. Being [00:15:20] in nature can really help bring back that perspective and lower stress that [00:15:25] way.

A lot of it is for each person trying to find what works [00:15:30] for them. For me, for example, it's meditation. I meditate every day, [00:15:35] and it has a big effect on my stress levels—gives me a lot of [00:15:40] perspective. When I sit down to meditate, it helps me really come back to what's [00:15:45] real, what's most important, and to notice when my mind is [00:15:50] going off worrying about silly things or things I can't [00:15:55] control.

Jennifer Borget: I feel like I'm definitely one of those people who feels like, "I don't want to exercise," but I [00:16:00] definitely feel better after I do, and I'm like, "Okay, I need to remind myself [00:16:05] of how this feels." But my quick and easy "Okay, I need to reset," is [00:16:10] ... it has to be warm outside; if it's cold, it doesn't work. But I love just walking to the [00:16:15] mailbox in my bare feet. With the heat and the sun, I'm like, "Oh, this [00:16:20] is a breath of fresh air," and being out in nature for a second makes a big [00:16:25] difference, and it's easier than exercise. But I need to do that more. [00:16:30]

So, these people who are making it to retirement or some of these people we're [00:16:35] seeing now that are living longer and outliving others, what has the study found about [00:16:40] who handles it well and who maybe struggles?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Well, the people who [00:16:45] handle retirement well are the people who stay connected with other [00:16:50] people.

One of the things we found in our study: Many of our [00:16:55] original people of the World War II generation might have worked for a company their [00:17:00] whole lives, maybe 40, even 50 years, and then they retired. So [00:17:05] they worked full time, and then suddenly they were at home, and many of them would [00:17:10] literally look around and say, "Where is everybody?" They [00:17:15] had taken for granted all these co-workers who they were with, and [00:17:20] suddenly they felt like there wasn't anybody in their lives. They didn't have friends. They [00:17:25] hadn't kept up with family, whatever.

One of the things that [00:17:30] really makes a difference is making sure you have connections with people, [00:17:35] with friends, with family, or deliberately [00:17:40] taking on new things in your life when you're retired that involve other [00:17:45] people. Maybe you work for a cause that you really care about. You [00:17:50] volunteer for it in the community, and you do it alongside people who care about the [00:17:55] same thing, and then gradually you strike up conversations, and you might make a friend or [00:18:00] two.

Jennifer Borget: Okay, now I want you to speak directly to someone in our audience with these final [00:18:05] few takeaway questions, okay? And we're going to address people in a few different situations. So [00:18:10] first, for someone who's in their 30s or 40s, they're juggling work, kids, a [00:18:15] mortgage, maybe also trying to save, what's the most important thing that [00:18:20] they should understand about the connection between how they're living today and how they'll thrive [00:18:25] decades from now?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Investing in [00:18:30] the things that are most important to you, right? So, when [00:18:35] we asked our people in their 80s to look back on their lives, we asked them, "What do you [00:18:40] regret the most, and what are you proudest of?" The biggest regret [00:18:45] that a lot of people had was "I wish I hadn't spent so [00:18:50] much time at work. I wish I had spent more time with the people I cared about." [00:18:55] And many of the women in the study said, "I wish I [00:19:00] hadn't worried so much about what other people thought." [00:19:05]

So, the advice might be to think now about what really matters to you. [00:19:10] What do you really care about? And that can include financial things. That can [00:19:15] include I care about my family's safety. I care about being sure [00:19:20] I have a comfortable retirement. Those things matter. As we said, that keeps [00:19:25] you comfortable now if you feel like you're providing for the future. But the [00:19:30] main thing is to see if you can do less of the things you [00:19:35] just don't care about and more of the things that you do care about.

Jennifer Borget: Taking that wisdom from people who have [00:19:40] been there, I think, is a great tip. So, what about someone who isn't [00:19:45] following a traditional timeline? Maybe they're marrying later; they're deciding not to start a [00:19:50] family. What does a good later in life look like for someone on a [00:19:55] nonconventional path?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: Oh, thereare so many good nonconventional paths. I mean, there are people [00:20:00] who stay home and raise kids and then at age 50 go out into the workforce [00:20:05] and become leaders at age [00:20:10] 55, 60, 65, when other people are retiring. So they're very [00:20:15] unconventional paths. There are people who decide not to have children, who spend a lot more time [00:20:20] traveling, who spend more of their lives doing things [00:20:25] that you don't get to do when you're raising young children.

There are a lot of unconventional [00:20:30] paths, and that's actually one of the [00:20:35] best things that we've seen. Our first generation, our World War II generation, [00:20:40] had pretty conventional paths for most people. The men were in the [00:20:45] workplace. The women were at home raising kids, doing volunteer work. And now that's [00:20:50] all quite varied, which is great because people get to do [00:20:55] more of what they want to do and what they're more suited to doing.

Jennifer Borget: And for someone who's [00:21:00] already in retirement, maybe they're there, and they feel like they didn't quite get it [00:21:05] right. They feel like it's too late for them. Is it?

Dr. Robert Waldinger: No. I mean, [00:21:10] in the book we wrote, The Good Life, the last chapter is titled “It's Never Too Late,” [00:21:15] and in that chapter we have all these stories of people who were sure they had done [00:21:20] life wrong.

They were sure, for example, that they were never going to have friends, that they never had [00:21:25] them before, and they weren't going to have them. And then what we found was that [00:21:30] there were many people who, for the first time in their 60s, 70s, 80s [00:21:35] made really good friends, or people who got married for the first time very late in life.[00:21:40]

And so, if you think that everything is set in stone [00:21:45] and that you know the future, think again, because it's not true. There are [00:21:50] so many possibilities that you need to be open to.

Jennifer Borget: That's [00:21:55] Dr. Robert Waldinger, psychiatrist, Harvard professor, director of the [00:22:00] longest-running study of adult life ever conducted, and author of The Good Life.[00:22:05]

Throughout this series, we've talked about money at life's biggest moments, and we're ending it [00:22:10] here, with 85 years of data on what actually makes those moments matter. [00:22:15] What keeps coming back to me is it's not the milestones themselves that determine [00:22:20] how your life turns out. It's the quality of the relationships and the intentionality [00:22:25] you bring to each one.

Thank you for spending this series with us. If any of these [00:22:30] conversations moved you, share them with someone you care about. That's kind of the whole point. [00:22:35] And if you're ready to build a financial plan that actually fits the life you want to live, a [00:22:40] Northwestern Mutual advisor can help you get there.

Download the free Family Finances workbook to [00:22:45] get started at northwesternmutual.com/podcast.[00:22:50]

Northwestern Mutual is the marketing name for Northwestern Mutual [00:22:55] Life Insurance Company (NM) and its subsidiaries, including Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management [00:23:00] Company (NMWMC), investment advisory services and federal [00:23:05] savings bank. NM and its subsidiaries are in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Not all [00:23:10] Northwestern Mutual representatives are advisors. Only those representatives with "advisor” in the [00:23:15] title or who otherwise disclose their status as an advisor of Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management [00:23:20] Company (NMWMC) are credentialed as NMWMC [00:23:25] representatives to provide advisory services.

Dr. Robert Waldinger is [00:23:30] not affiliated with Northwestern Mutual, and the views expressed by Dr. Robert Waldinger [00:23:35] do not necessarily represent those of Northwestern Mutual or its subsidiaries.